What does it take to get rid of all those sins?

Notes and my reflections as I read Muhammad: A Prophet For Our Time by Karen Armstrong

Over the last two or three years I've read a number of blogs and comments on blogs written by Muslims. I've read their thoughts on a variety of issues with interest  and have learned quite a lot. I figured it was better to learn about Islam from Muslims rather than only reading Christian sources that might have a bit of a different spin.  :)

One issue I'm not really clear on is forgiveness of sin. I recall my questions while reading the Quran since it seems to imply God can only forgive some sins. (see this post for an example). Muslims told me on other blogs that God can only forgive sins you commit against Him, but not ones you commit against others.  The offended one holds the power in this case.  He must forgive you, but God cannot. 

I recall a few months back Christians were basically laughed at for believing someone like Hitler could have been forgiven by God according to our beliefs.  "Marc" - an American convert to Islam - didn't believe it was in God's sense of justice to forgive really bad sinners.  Especially at one fell swoop.  Like something so silly as admitting your sinfulness and relying on God's mercy alone to save you. You know, that whole Jesus thing most of us Christians believe in.  Yeah, it really was quite an amusing dialog especially when a friend - not Muslim or Christian - pointed out that we were really debating whose God was more merciful! And there I was trying to prove Allah was just as merciful as Yahweh!  It was great!  :)

The reason I bring this up now is because I read this in Karen Armstrong's book yesterday in the final chapter called Salam.

She said when Khalid ibn al-Walid finally accepted Islam he was afraid of reprisals since he and his buddy 'Amr had killed many Muslims at the battles of Uhud and the Trench, "but Muhammad assured them that the act of islam wiped out old debts and represented an entirely new start."  (pg. 196) 

The solution for getting rid of those pesky sins & guilt?

I realize Khalid and 'Amr killed during battles so maybe this doesn't count the same on the sinfulness scale, but still the quote there is that the act of surrendering to God (islam) wipes the slate clean, right? Is this not the same as what Christians believe when they claim accepting Jesus' work on the cross cleanses us from sin?

So God can, in fact, cleanse people from ALL sins and not just some.  I remember when "Marc" made this mocking accusation, I mentioned hajj and didn't Muslims often believe going to Mecca and performing the rituals cleansed them. He said "good point" and others clarified that no, actually, it only cleansed you from sins against God and not others.   A Muslim woman convert spoke up and said she was told having babies cleansed her from sin. So it's all rather confusing to me still, but quite an interesting topic. I like to see what various people think.

I believe from the Bible that God can forgive all sins. When we sin against others, we are, in actuality, sinning against God because each of us is HIS creation and, therefore, His.  (I argued about that in my notes on Sura 71.) Yes, it's great to ask others for forgiveness and I believe we should seek to right all wrongs. But what if we killed someone just like Khalid and 'Amr killed Muslims? Can we go ask those deceased people for forgiveness?  Are we doomed to hell because someone else holds the power of forgiveness and is either not willing or not present to extend forgiveness?

Thoughts on any of this?  Do you believe God can cleanse all sins ... even the really bad ones? Should He? Or is it against His sense of justice?  Where does God being most merciful and compassionate come into play?  How does one balance mercy, grace, compassion and justice?  How do you make sense of all this?

New Book: "Dying for Heaven"

Dying for Heaven by Ariel Glucklich is a book I found at the library last week. I didn't know anything about the author*, but thought the subject - "Holy Pleasure and Suicide Bombers -- Why the Best Qualities of Religion are Also its Most Dangerous" - seemed intriguing. The book was fair. More of a study on pleasure (using the example of food choices) and why people do what they do to maximize pleasure. Of course he tied it into religious pleasure including the love of God which translated into us loving God.

Chapters include such things as The Mysteries of Pleasure, The Varieties of Religious Pleasures, God's Love and the Prozac Effect, The Paradise Paradox: The Misery of Heaven-Addicts among others.

The Paradise Paradox chapter argued that we actually enjoy life less when we believe in heaven. This book discusses mystics, martyrs, militant Sufis (!? pg.217) and those today who willingly strap on a vest and blow themselves up for the sake of God. The focus is reaching a possible way to discourage such behavior as no one wants to play "chicken" with a trigger-happy person with a nuclear bomb at his fingertips. The author argues for the effective use of comedy in dealing with this problem.

The author told how Arabs have used humor throughout the centuries and made reference to one of these jokes (below) as told by Sharif Kanaana on this site.

"I want a Palestinian state," Arafat says to God, who wishes to fulfill a wish for him. God hummed and hawed. "It will not happen in your lifetime, Arafat." "I want Jerusalem." "Nor will this happen in your lifetime, Arafat." "Then at least I want to be as good-looking as George Clooney." "Arafat!" says God, "that won't even happen in my lifetime."

Pages of interest to me --

The ones speaking of Gandhi and his recommendations to Jews in Germany and the Hindus in Pakistan to "die because he believed in their potential moral superiority over the people who were out to kill them. In Gandhi's view, glad acceptance of voluntary destruction could thus act as a kind of lesson to the killers - a form of spiritual education about the nature of true joy." The author then reminds us of Gandhi's "own lifelong commitment to this form of martyrdom by repeatedly threatening to kill himself through fasting." (pg. 29) He agreed with another writer who called this "blackmail."

"If one can love God, one surely ought to love another human. In practice, however, no such horizontal love can be detected in large-scale groups. The majority of humans, even those who believe in God, mostly just love their relatives." (pg. 194) The author made mention of Leviticus 19:18 where Jews are told to love their neighbors and also to Jesus' words in John 13:34,35 and I got to wondering is the concept of loving others in the Quran? I'm trying to remember if I saw it there so far.

"Heaven is part of a broader intellectual and religious habit of mind that makes our life less fulfilling and ultimately less real. Heaven depletes life of its potential joy." (pg. 231) He likens a person believing in heaven to an inmate who knows he will get out of prison sooner if he behaves. Therefore, during life we constantly analyze everything to make sure we are good enough for heaven. (pg. 238) He argues "they could be much happier in this life if they eliminated the notion of heavenly reward from their religion." (pg. 241)

(From a Christian perspective, I would argue with the author that I'm not trying to work my way to heaven so I don't have that fear and worry of one who believes her every deed will be analyzed. Maybe I am silly and naive for that, but if I believe I can do nothing truly good without God's help, it's freeing. I struggle more with abiding in Him, having fellowship and relationship with Him instead of worrying that I'm not good enough or that that string of hateful words I used will tip the scales out of my favor in God's eyes. Relationship with God, living in close fellowship with Him, basking in His goodness to me -- in my opinion, that is the source of my joy and peace! So I would like to share this thought with Mr. Glucklich if I had a chance.)

"Acting for the sake of heaven will turn you into a spiritual addict. You will find yourself compelled to act entirely because you want something (reward) and not at all because you like it (joy)." (pg. 243)

(Perhaps this is true for those trying to earn salvation or who believe they must "be good" in order to please God. They see most everything as a suffering or hardship they must endure in order to gain a reward later. But why not live in the here and now and enjoy doing good because it's what God made you for? It's how He works in you to show Himself as good and holy to a needy world.)


* Found out through reading the book that he was born in Israel, his father was buried there and he has atheistic/humanistic views from what I could tell. He teaches in the US. See this:

Ariel Glucklich is a professor of religion at Georgetown University. He specializes in Hinduism and in the psychology and biology of religion. He is particularly interested in what motivates people to become and remain religious and the various ways that religion makes people self-destruct.

Thoughts on Money, Faith & Meaning in Life

Chapter: "The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man" found in Luke 16

"'The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof' (Ps 24:1). This basic biblical principle is foreign to the contemporary capitalist West. The car in the driveway, the house I live in, the pen in my pocket, the watch on my wrist, the computer I use to compose these reflections -- all belong to God. I am merely a steward of them." (pg. 380)

Actually I think if you asked many Christians in the West they would agree to this statement in theory, however, I don't believe most of us live it. Do most of us ask, "God, how would you like for me to spend this bonus that you blessed me with? Should we forego a new car so we can help this needy family?" I doubt it. I generally do not. Do you?


"The events of our lives have meaning. We access or fail to access that meaning by the way in which we respond to those events. What we do with the good gifts and the pain of life is what matters. The rich man responded to the good things given to him with self-indulgence, indifference to the needs of others, arrogance and class pride. Lazarus responded to his pain with patience, longsuffering, gentleness and implied forgiveness." (pg. 394)

The part about accessing meaning struck a chord for me. Have I responded wisely to events in my life? What have I done with life's good gifts and pain? Have I learned from those times? Grown in someway? Changed for the better?

The corrupting potential of wealth

Wealth, be it little or much, is not condemned in Scripture. What is criticized is the failure to see that all material possessions belong to God. We are merely stewards of his treasures. The parable reflects the corrupting, blinding potential of wealth and is critical of the social irresponsible wealthy. The rich man used his resources for his own self-indulgent living. He cared nothing about his God, his staff or the needy in his community. Even in hell he remained unrepentant and continued to see Lazarus as an inferior who should serve him as a waiter or an errand boy. Mammon had become his master. (pg. 395)

"Historical proof of resurrection does not necessarily create faith. The rich man saw a resurrected Lazarus and failed to repent. To demand proof for great mysteries is to cheapen faith." (pg. 396)

I included this here because I really liked that last sentence. I think I'll make it bold. I know the Bible teaches how important faith is to God. In fact Hebrews 11 tells us without faith it is impossible to please God. I think the hard part for most is wondering if we can trust God and His goodness. Blind faith seems silly at best so where's the balance between accepting any ol' thing and having a rich faith which pleases God?

"The focus of the parable is not on a form of justice that evens the score, but is found in discovering the ways in which meaning is created by our responses to the good gifts and the suffering that life brings to everyone." (pg. 396)

God blesses us so we can bless others. Not so we can grow fat and lazy and uncaring about needy people while we enjoy the pleasures of life. I like what Jesus said about storing up treasures in heaven instead of trying to do the same on earth. One hundred years from now will it matter how many gadgets, cars, houses or changes of clothing we had?

What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet loses his soul? - Mark 8:36


Thoughts?


Quotes from Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey

What do you think you deserve?

"Experiencing the loss of loved ones and all normal conveniences and even basic necessities has a way of heightening one's appreciation for God's most mundane mercies. It all has to do with our starting place. What do you think you deserve? If you deserve to be six feet under with your soul writhing in hell, then you're bound to have an elevated motivation to be thankful for any mercy at all. Even a few drops of water on the tip of the rich man's tongue, as in Jesus' Luke 16 story, could elicit thanks, if you felt what you really deserve."

~ Jim Elliff in article "But I Don't Feel Thankful"


I have more I want to add about this post, but for now I think I'll leave it for you to ponder. What do you think you deserve?

According to your spiritual beliefs, how you've lived and think: do you deserve God's best, hell or somewhere in the middle? Why do you think you deserve what you say you do? If God came to you and said, "I am a just God. I am fair and want to give you what you deserve," how would you answer?


Bonus material: Here is one belief of how The Fall affected humanity according to the Bible.

3 more books I've read

More books I've read:

The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel; Author investigates 8 of the toughest objections to Christianity:

Since Evil and Suffering Exist, a Loving God Cannot
Since Miracles Contradict Science, They Cannot Be True
Evolution Explains Life, So God Isn't Needed
God Isn't Worthy of Worship If He Kills Innocent Children
It's Offensive to Claim Jesus Is the Only Way to God
A Loving God Would Never Torture People in Hell
Church History Is Littered with Oppression and Violence
I Still Have Doubts, So I Can't Be a Christian

I especially enjoyed learning some new things about evolutionists in the third chapter. The case for God not being worthy of worship (# 4) answered some questions I had concerning the Old Testament battles. I am glad to have some answers. I found the chapter on church history very good. The final case on still having doubts was wonderful as well. Although parts of this book were a bit over my head, mostly it was beneficial. I only had problems with the chapter on hell because the scholar interviewed didn't believe in a literal fire. It was just something I was unfamiliar with and since I'd just read 23 Minutes in Hell not long before, I was not on the same page as the scholar. Overall, very good book. Recommend.


Does My Head Look Too Big In This? by Randa Abdel-Fattah
The author is a Muslim lady of Palestinian and Egyptian descent who lives in Australia. Her book was recommended in an e-mail I receive from The Crescent Project. I found it in the youth fiction section of the public library. This book is about a teenage Muslim who decides to start wearing the hijab. It shows how typical she is and basically shows her at school and home and with her friends. The e-mail said this book would help us gain some insight to Muslims. Here is a review:

"The details of Amal's family and social life are spot-on, and the book is wonderful at showing the diversity within Muslim communities and in explaining why so many women choose to wear the hijab."- School Library Journal




Meeting Islam: A Guide for Christians by George Dardess

This book was written by a Catholic deacon in Rochester, NY. He presented many aspects of Islam in a pleasant way by comparing and contrasting them with Biblical counterparts. For instance, he showed how the hijab and the veil of the temple were related and how they differed. He touched on Isa of the Qu'ran compared to Jesus of the Bible without getting into the major differences Muslims and Christians have here. I learned about salat, taqwa (compared to the ten virgins in the Bible -- watchfulness, readiness), abd and wali (compared to Mary and Martha), jihad and the Christian's "fighting the good fight of faith," takbir and "hallowed by Thy name."

While I sincerely admire the author for his genuine love for Muslims in his area and for the way he and the Muslims have formed alliances, I was left wondering about a few things in this book. Namely, the author seems to think the Qu'ran is from God. I got the impression from him that both the Bible and Qu'ran were from God so I was left confused how he came to this conclusion and kept his Christianity intact. This book gave me a real appreciation for the devotion of Muslims, but it raised a lot of questions which I would have loved for the author to address. The Bible says God is not the author of confusion, but having two "words of God" IS confusing when their messages concerning salvation are vastly different. Both may be wrong, but both cannot be right. Can they?

The Case for Christ & 23 Minutes in Hell

I've been reading so many good books lately, I wanted to write a few notes so I can remember which book dealt with which topics.

The Case for Christ -- After his wife unpleasantly surprised him by announcing she had become a Christian, but pleasantly surprised him by the good changes in her life, atheist and Chicago Tribune investigative reporter Lee Strobel went on a journey around America to interview scholars concerning the Biblical Jesus Christ. In this book he presents what he found that lead him to believe for himself that Jesus is the Son of God. Lee said although these interviews lead him to believe in Christ, the biggest evidence of Christ's power is the radical change in his own previously immoral life. He said even his very young daughter noticed this positive change in her daddy!

One of my favorite parts is where one scholar talks of how different the apostles were after Jesus' resurrection. Before Christ died, the disciples were often timid and doubtful, but after they saw the resurrected Christ, they proclaimed the salvation story with boldness. They even suffered persecution and most were martyred because of their firm beliefs in Christ. As one noted, many people will die for things they sincerely believe in even if it is not true. However men do not die for a known lie. The disciples knew the resurrection was not a lie -- they saw the risen Lord. Therefore, they boldly witnessed because they knew persecution on earth is nothing compared to the glory of Heaven, and they were not afraid to suffer for the Truth's sake. "When the Son makes you free, you are free indeed."

23 Minutes in Hell -- This book is very sobering and reminds the reader of the realities of hell. Actually hell is so much worse than the human mind can imagine -- and it lasts for eternity! You do not want anyone to go there! Hell was created for the devil and the fallen angels, but we will go there if we refuse to accept God's offer of salvation through His Son. God doesn't send us to hell. Our unbelief does. God will not force you into His presence, His home, Heaven ... so come to Him through His Son.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/BillWiese_23MinutesInHell_Text.htm

When I got my composure, at least enough to start forming thoughts, I thought about saying to the Lord, I don't even think I asked Him out loud, I just thought it and He answered me. I said, "Lord why did You send me to this place? Why did you send me here?" He said to me "Because people do not believe that this place exists." He said "Even some of my own people do not believe this place is real." I was shocked at that statement. I thought every Christian has got to believe in Hell. But not everyone believes in a literal burning Hell. I said Lord "why did you pick me?" But He didn't answer me on that question.

I have no idea why He picked me to go there. I'm the least likely to go to this place. My wife and I hate evil movies. We hate anything bad. I don't even like the summer time, much less heat. It's filthy. There's no order. It's all chaos and disorder and disgusting. And I love everything orderly and excellent. He didn't answer me on that question. He said to me, "Go tell them that I hate this place, that it's not my desire for one of my creation to go to this place, not one! I never made this for man. This was made for the devil and his angels. You have to go and tell them! I've given you a mouth, you go and tell them."

I thought to myself, "but Lord, they're not going to believe me. They're going to think I'm crazy or had a bad dream." I mean wouldn't you think that? As I thought this the Lord answered me and He said, "It's not your job to convince them. It's the Holy Spirit�s job! You just go and tell them!" And it was just inside, "Yes Sir!" Absolutely, I have to go and tell them." You can't worry and fear what man is going to think of you, you just have to go and do it and let God do the rest. Amen? And I said, "Lord, why did they hate me so much?" "Why did these creatures hate me?" He said, "Because you're made in my image, and they hate me." You know the devil can't do anything against God. He can't hurt God, per say, but he can hurt His creation. That's why the devil hates mankind, and deceives him into taking him into Hell. And he inflicts diseases upon him, anything he can do to hurt God's creation.

(The Peace of God)
And then God flooded me with His thoughts. He let me touch a piece of His heart, of how much He loves mankind. Unbelievable, I couldn't even take it. It was so overbearing. The love He has for man, you can't take it in this body. You know how much we love our wives and our children? Well the love we have can't even be compared to the love God has for us. His love is infinitely greater than our love and our ability to love. It's just the same as it says in Eph 3:19, �...to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge...� It goes so far past knowledge, you can't even grasp it. I couldn't believe how much He loved mankind, that He would die for just one person to not go to this place. And it hurts Him so much to see one of His creation going to this place. It pains the Lord, He weeps to see one person going. And I felt so bad for the Lord.

I felt His heart, He let me just touch a piece of His heart. He felt such sadness for His creation going there. And I thought "I've got to go out and witness and take every last breath I have and go tell the world about Jesus, How good He is." I mean, we have the gospel. It's good news. It's good news, and the world doesn't know. They have to be told! You know, we have to share this knowledge. People just have a lack of knowledge in this area. God wants us to share with them how good He is, and how He hates this place.

He said to me also, "Tell them I am coming very, very soon." And He said it again, "Tell them I'm coming very, very soon." Now I think, why didn't I say to him, "What do you mean Lord? What's 'soon' to you?" That's how we think. But I didn't ask. You just don't think to ask those things then. You just want to worship Him so much. The peace of God that comes over you being next to Him is unexplainable. I've been in anointed services, but there is no comparison to the love and the peace of God you feel being next to Him.

And then I looked up and I saw those demons on the wall, that were so ferocious, they looked like ants on the wall! They just looked like ants! They were still big, but with the power of God next to you, all of God's creative power, they looked like ants on the wall. I couldn't get over it. I thought, "Lord they're just ants!" And He said, "You just have to bind them and cast them out in my name." I thought "boy, the power He's given the church." These things that were so ferocious, we were no match for a devil without Jesus, none. They're ferocious, but with Him, they are nothing! A boldness rose up in me right then, when I saw these creatures I felt like saying, "you creatures were the ones torturing me, wanting to tear me apart? Come on! Come on now!" Maybe a little bit of my flesh rose up or something, you know, I thought,�Jesus get 'em."