2. O you who believe, why do you profess what you do not practise?
Such a great question that has spawned so many sayings. Things like "actions speak louder than words," "your actions are speaking so loudly, I can't hear what you are saying," and even "practice what you preach." Can you think of others?
6. And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: "O children of Israel, I am sent to you by God to confirm the Torah (sent) before me, and to give you good tidings of an apostle who will come after me, whose name is Ahmad (the praised one)." Yet when he has come to them with clear proofs, they say: "This is only magic."
Interesting about Jesus mentioning someone named Ahmad coming. I know many Muslims say this is Muhammad. The biblical view is that Jesus only spoke of the coming of the Holy Spirit who was given to the believers at Pentecost.
Here are the words from Jesus about the Holy Spirit:
John 14: 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. ... 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
And this is how the Spirit of God arrived:
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
You can read Peter's reply here if you are interested.
10. O you who believe, may I offer you a bargain which will save you from a painful punishment? 11. Come to believe in God and His Apostle, and struggle in the cause of God, wealth and soul. This will be good for you, if you can understand. 12. He will forgive you your sins and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing by, and excellent mansions in the garden of Eden. This will be a great fulfilment.
I thought "bargain" was an interesting choice of words that the translator used. Seems a bit like a heavenly version of "Let's Make a Deal." :) Also I find struggling in the cause of God an interesting concept. Perhaps this is part of that inner jihad - the inner wrestling with our desires and things of faith - that I've heard about.
Sura 62 - al - Jumu'ah
This sura called out to the Jews and was a challenge to them to prove their "chosen" or "favored" standing by wishing for death.
6. Say: "O you Jews, if you claim that you are the favourites of God apart from all men, then wish for death, if you speak the truth. 7. But they will never wish for death because of what they had done in the past, and God knows the sinners well.
This sura also dealt with congregational prayers on Friday.
Sura 63 - al - Munafiqun
This chapter was a challenge to hypocrites and had strong words for those who had good words yet didn't act and fight in the Muslim cause. The last verses strongly urge Muslims to not be greedy, but to give in the cause of God.
Sura 64 - al - Taghabun
4. He knows what is in the heavens and the earth, and knows what you hide and what you disclose; God knows what is in the hearts.
Good reminder that God sees everything. Nothing is hidden.
14. O believers, some of your spouses and children are your enemies, so beware of them! Yet if you forbear, overlook, and forgive, God is indeed forgiving and kind.
This reminded me of the post I did on Jesus' divisive sword. He said,
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
My Quest Bible had this explanation:
These verses illustrate one of the harsher truths of God's kingdom: Not everyone will respond to the gospel. Hearts full of prejudice, hate and pride will resist Christ's offer of peace. Because many will reject it, the message will divide people, families and nations.
We can see this today sometimes when someone becomes a follower of Jesus and his family disowns or - in extreme cases - tries to kill him
15. Your wealth and children are surely meant as trial for you: But with God is the great reward.
It was just cute to see riches and children as being a trial. :)
20 comments:
Susie, didn't Jesus say no prophet will come after him? I may be wrong. I thought he said no one will come after him and anyone claiming so is a false prophet.
Oh and interesting bit is that Mirza AHMED made the same claim! He used this verse to say that HE was the Messiah that Jesus talked about - the "Mahdi" since his name was Ahmed.
Suroor, that's interesting about Mirza Ahmed...hmmm.
I don't remember Jesus saying no other prophets would come, but for sure I don't see him foretelling Muhammad's arrival in those verses Muslims usually use in the NT to say the Helper was the Islamic prophet. For starters Jesus said the Spirit would stay with them to lead and guide them into all truth and convict them of sin. Muhammad died. The Spirit of God did not.
The Spirit is supposed to remind us of Jesus' teachings, his example. Muhammad seems to be different than Jesus. It's more a "be nice to your enemy only if they are nice to you first" thing.
There are warnings against people who come with other gospels that change or pervert the Gospel of Christ. Paul, Jude, Peter, John -- many warned us of those coming and to not listen to them.
This is why I told you one time it wasn't Muhammad's humanness that I rejected. I am used to sinful prophets. I am skeptical of him because he changed the gospel of Christ. And I was clearly warned about people such as this and (for me) must be wary of him for this reason. I don't see Muhammad's message as an improvement so I am leery of him.
Thanks for comments. :)
In reference to Ahmad being mentioned in Bible, I would suggest you to visit:
http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/muhammad_prophesised/christians.htm
You can also visit the home page for further review. Dr. Zakir Naik is an expert in comparative religion and does give quite an interesting comparisons and contrast of Islam with other religions.
As of wealth and children being trial, it is certainly true, as raising kids in decent manner is one of the biggest trial these days and what harm some extra cash can do? we have Arab shiekhs and hollywood celebrities as an example:P
Tauqeer, thanks for the link. I actually read one very similar just the other day as a Muslim woman posted it and wanted Christians to tell her what they thought. I gave one example above to Suroor, but another that I mentioned to the Muslim woman was the Deuteronomy 18 passage.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
Actually, I'll just copy what I told her:
" I’ve read the Bible and never seen Muhammad prophesied. I know Muslims take verses and make them seem as if they do, but that’s twisting the message. Plus why try to prove someone from “corrupted” Scripture as many Muslims like to call the Bible?
The Deut. 18 thing for starters — in the same book, God said Israel’s kings would also come from among their brothers yet how many of Israel’s kings were Arabs like Muhammad? When He said among the brothers, he meant the 12 tribes of Israel which include a LOT of brothers. The Arabs were not even part of the Israelites’ existence as far as I’m concerned. They were off doing things in their own lands.
And about the Holy Spirit being Muhammad….Muhammad isn’t still with us. He died. The Spirit of God (aka Holy Spirit) never died. He testifies even now to the truth of Jesus as Jesus said he would."
"we have Arab shiekhs and hollywood celebrities as an example"
Ha, ha! So true!!
Thank you for your comment! I enjoyed reading your thoughts! :)
When I once asked a Christian,why wouldn't believe in Muhd,she said that in the Bible,Jesus said that he was the alpha and the omega.So no other prophets would come after him.
Isn't this a reason too?
Lat, thanks for sharing what your Christian friend said. That's not an answer I thought of, but one that works, I suppose. :) By calling himself Alpha & Omega, "Jesus declared Himself to be the beginning and end of all things, a reference to no one but the true God. This statement of eternality could apply only to God."
So if your Christian friend were sure that Jesus is God then she could reject Muhammad simply on the grounds that his message was different than Jesus'.
Thanks for what you added to the discussion!
Susie, I did some research and apparently it is in Christian ‘tradition’ (not the Bible) that no prophet will come after Jesus since the Messiah of the OT (aka Jesus) would be the last Word God will send.
What I found interesting through my research on it is that the NT as we have it today and most certainly the Gospel of John was not canonized in Arabia in the 7th century so the V 6 couldn’t have been referring to John since no one had read or known it in Arabia. In fact the Gospel of Infancy (current apocryphal text) was the canonized Bible of Arabia hence there is much on Jesus from it referred to in the Quran.
A few other things to note is that the V6 is specifically referring to the Torah/Law (don’t know why Naik referred to the NT – maybe he was confused that John was the Law? He also does not seem to know that the Bible consists of several books and is not one book) so most probably the reference is to Deuteronomy for which one would really have to bend over backwards (that Naik does quite flexibly) to prove. I can’t see anyone other than Jesus being referred to there:
1) The Hebrew word used is נָבִ֨יא that has the original meaning of ‘Spokesperson’ that is closer in original meaning than prophet (which is a newer meaning of the word).
2) The other word is “from among their brother”, but the Hebrew word once again is אֲחֵיהֶ֖ם that translates as “a fellow countryman.”
3) Jesus is called the Word of God both in the Quran and by John so one who had God’s words in his mouth would be the Word of God, right?
So the translation according to the ancient Hebrew meanings reads as:
I will raise a Spokesperson from among their countrymen (the Israelites), who will be just like you; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.
The other thing is that Naik has taken the verse right out of the entire context –something he often blames the Christians of doing with the Quran. The context is a dialogue between God and Moses about Israelites – not Arabs. In Deuteronomy 18, the first 8 verses talk about God telling Moses about offerings for priests and Levites; verses 9-13 refer to God telling Moses about detestable practices in the eyes of God. Then verses 14-16 refer to Moses talking to the Israelites and saying that God would raise a spokesperson for YOU who is like me. Verses 17- 20 are more important because they refer to Moses telling the Israelites what God had told him about raising a spokesperson/prophet from among the ISRAELITES. In fact, verse 20 says that if a man comes and calls God by any name other than Yahweh then he should be put to death!
Anyway, what I have heard is that there were verses in the Bible about Ahmed but that they were purposefully removed by the Jews and the Christians. That is certainly a great charge since even the Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing about Ahmed in them.
Also, Susanne, the verse from John that you quoted – I just re-read Naik’s take on it :)
According to Naik (and many others), “Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos.” If only the Greek word used was either Paracletos or Periclytos! The original word used is paraklēton!
Some knowledge of Greek is required to bend so much. Paraklēton is also used in John 2:1 and its origin is in the word parakaleó NOT periclytos. Parakaleó has 17 meanings and none means “the praised one”, in fact, it is a verb and most closely (according to the context) means comforts, encourages, beseeches, implores.
The other thing that caught my eye was “Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus… Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).”
1) Like you pointed out John calls it a Spirit of truth who shall live forever
2) Jesus said “The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” The world saw Muhammad and knows him even today!
This was fun!
Suroor, you make me giggle! I wondered where you were all day. I thought, "Dang, she's quiet." And what do I find? My darling researcher has been researching!!!! OF COURSE!! :-D
Ha, ha! You are too cute! I'll read what all your wrote (I skimmed) more thoroughly and reply a bit later. :)
Thank you!
Giggle away - I aim to please :)
I want to go back to V6 if I may:
And when Jesus, son of Mary, said: "O children of Israel, I am sent to you by God to confirm the Torah (sent) before me, and to give you good tidings of an apostle who will come after me, whose name is Ahmad (the praised one)." Yet when he has come to them with clear proofs, they say: "This is only magic."
OK, Jesus tells the children of Israel that he was the one mentioned in Deu 18 and has come to them (the children of Israel)and he says to them that an apostle will come to them (let's say that is a reference to John 14). And that he (Ahmed) does come with clear proofs ... but when has he "come to them"? When did Ahmed/Muhammad come to the children of Israel? He came to the children of Arabia.
Susanne,
It is true that Ahmadi mulsims site this verse as a reason why they believe in the messiah. The verse from the Quran could be Muhammad and Ahmadi and can apply to both. It can also be the first messiah outlining that his return (second coming) will be in his spirit (doing the same role) but not actually him. It's also why we are called 'Ahmadis' - not after the founder but after this verse.
This is where Ahamdis differ from other Muslims. They believe that the same Jesus will return as the messiah for the Muslims.
In reply to the Deutronomy quote, I think that the Holy Spirit is God and is a part of how God communicates with us. The Holy spirit can also be that 'spark of divine' that exists in us all and helps our hearts search for God if we listen to it.
Muslims can say that Muhammad communed with the Holy Spirit (or God) but I don't think we can say he was the spirit itself.
Interesting comments too.
Suroor, a couple years ago a Christian Arab who grew up in the Middle East but now lives in America sent me some information. It was series of questions and such that Muslims often have or things they say about the Bible and our understanding of it. One section dealt with these supposed prophecies of Muhammad and your research reminded me of it. I really really enjoyed what all you shared. You actually brought out some interesting points that I don't believe I'd heard before.
Another thing about this --
“Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus… Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).”
We believe the Holy Spirit (which is the Spirit of God that He "shares" with us) would continuously dwell with us after Jesus left. It's true the Spirit was mentioned before in both the Old and New Testament, however, one realizes the Spirit came and went moreso than continuously dwelling with a person. Jesus promised the Helper/Counselor/Comforter (that Greek word has been translated various ways according to its definition, but not Praised One) would dwell with us and teach us all things. He would also convict us of sin and enable us to live the way Jesus lived. (see verses in John 14, 15 and 16).
Jesus also said:
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
He said his peace is not as the world gives and that the Spirit would teach us all things and remind us what Jesus said. Yet in my reading of the Quran, Muhammad's idea of peace was only among believers (fellow Muslims) and ONLY if they obeyed the Islamic prophet would they have this peace. Jesus offered peace to even enemies in a sense. When you love your enemies, you aren't out raiding their caravans or warring against them.
Anyway, I could go on, but your comments are quite sufficient. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed that you researched this yourself and made me giggle yesterday! :) Thank you!
sarah, welcome and how nice to have the point of view from an Ahmadi Muslim! I'm really glad you shared your perspective on this verse and how you differ from the more mainstream Muslims.
"I think that the Holy Spirit is God and is a part of how God communicates with us. The Holy spirit can also be that 'spark of divine' that exists in us all and helps our hearts search for God if we listen to it. "
So you all seem a bit more like the Trinitarian Christians in this. At least the part about the Holy Spirit being God. :) I always consider the Holy Spirit as God's Spirit that He 'shares' (for lack of a better term) with us in order to lead us to truth and convict of us sin and enable us to live according to His will. How interesting to read this from you. I truly appreciate your taking time to share your thoughts! I enjoy hearing other views. Thanks much!
I enjoyed the research Susanne because for the first time I am convinced that it doesn't refer to Muhammad - I had only read stuff from other people of both sides. But I don't think the verse (John 14:16) refers to the Holy Spirit either. For one the word means the same as the one used in Hebrew in Deu 18. It is also used to actually refer to Jesus in in John 2:1. Jesus calls it "another" advocate, meaning his replacement. But in Greek it could also mean send the advocate 'again.'
Jesus says he'd pray to the Father. Although it is not clear if Father listens to his prayer, it is assumed that He did. (Another thing if Jesus is God and Father is God then God prays to God to send another God to live forever - there is a hierarchy there; if Trinity is Unity then why the hierarchy - but I digress).
I *think* Jesus was referring to himself in John 14:16. To a Trinitarian it means the same thing but to me it means that Jesus would pray to God that He does not take out Jesus and his works from the lives of people so he lives in the people forever. That is why no one will know him or see him but people will "know him, for he lives with [them] (when Jesus was alive and was "among them") and will be in you." Jesus ends this with the promise "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you" which he makes in V 3 and 28 as well.
Just my two pennies :D
Thanks Susanne for your welcome. I find your views very honest and balanced and am glad that you have tried to read the Quran with an open mind.
I think Jesus is definitely referring to the second coming in John 14:16. It was normal practice for the prophets to receive for some revelation as to the future of their followers or progeny and I see that in this light. They also told their contemporaries about it (according to the Quran).
The issue then does not become whether you believe there will be a second coming but exactly how that will be manifested.
Personally, i believe that Jesus survived the crucifixion and went on to preach in other areas to the lost sheep. Perhaps the verse in John 14:16 is Jesus speaking to his followers after the crucifixion as he is about to leave Jerusalem. That's just my interpretation of the verse.
Suroor,
"(Another thing if Jesus is God and Father is God then God prays to God to send another God to live forever - there is a hierarchy there; if Trinity is Unity then why the hierarchy - but I digress)."
Yes, I don't understand it either, but I have heard people say that a hierarchy exists. It's confusing to me though. I admit. See this if you are interested in one view --
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
" Jesus ends this with the promise "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you" which he makes in V 3 and 28 as well."
Great point! Well, does this make Jesus a father to the orphans? Anyway, I enjoyed the logic of your thoughts! :)
Sarah, I enjoyed your thoughts on that verse. Biblically, he was speaking a bit before he was to be crucified - preparing his disciples for what was to come. So, yes, maybe he was assuring them that he would rise from the dead (as we believe he did) and not to panic when they saw he would not be there for a few days. And, yes, I too believe Jesus is coming again one day!
I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this verse. Thanks much! :
“Great point! Well, does this make Jesus a father to the orphans?”
It would but the Greek word used also meant (at one time): destitute/helpless/hopeless/comfortless. It definitely meant fatherless as well.
What I have noticed is that in Arabia there was greater emphasis of making everyone your brother – slaves are like your brothers, don’t call them sons; cousins are your brothers; fellow citizens are brothers; all Muslims are brothers. There were paternal relationships as well like Muhammad’s wives all became mothers of the believers. And people were called by their kunya (abu-so-and-so and um-so-and-so). In the ME the relationship was more paternally adoptive. At least all senior rabbis called themselves the son of God. That is where the reference to Ezra is also from in the Quran. It is also one reason it is emphatically stated in the Quran that Muhammad was NOT the father of his people. In fact I read a long time ago that the verse in which his wives are called mothers of the believers also referred to him as father of the believers but it was later deleted when the Quran was codified. I can’t offer reference to that at the moment though because I read that many years ago.
So I think because this *confusion* was created (according to Muslims and Jews) with Jesus calling God his father and then telling his people that he wouldn’t leave them helpless/fatherless (which to me is completely metaphorical and not literal at all), Muslims were more cautious which was a good thing IMHO.
Suroor, thanks for the explanation.
"So I think because this *confusion* was created (according to Muslims and Jews) with Jesus calling God his father and then telling his people that he wouldn’t leave them helpless/fatherless (which to me is completely metaphorical and not literal at all), Muslims were more cautious which was a good thing IMHO."
I think God does help the helpless and is a "father" to the "fatherless." Literal or metaphorically God still helps and sustains us which is "fatherish" of Him. Remember a "father" isn't necessarily a sperm donor by implies a caring relationship of which I DO believe the Bible - both Old and New Testaments - teaches.
I don't know that being a "brother" of everyone is good if that only is a title and they really don't help each other out. *shrug*
Interesting thoughts. Thanks!
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